DNA Testing

Some time ago, I joined the Kendall DNA Project, and had my DNA tested.

Y chromosomes are passed directly from father to son. Because Y chromosomes mutate over time, it's possible to use the number and degree of mutations to determine the "genetic distance" between two people, and to calculate the probability that they are related in a genealogical time frame.

My DNA did not match that of any other Kendall DNA Project member.

Recently, I got in touch with Ivor Kendall, a 2nd great- (i.e., great-great-) grandson of James (1800-1851) and Martha (née Cox). I also got in touch with Chris Kendell, a 3rd great-grandson of William (1794-1879) and Mary (née Mist).

Some online family trees claim that James and William were sons of my 4th great-grandfather Thomas (1761-1847); however, I've been unable to find any documentation to support this.

As I've written elsewhere, the 1841 census of Sandford seems to indicate that James, Martha and their children lived with Thomas. But the Ringwood parish baptism records show that James was in fact a son of Charles (1760-1829) and Lucy (née Wiseman), and a grandson of George (-1797) and Mary (née Peckham).

There is no record of William's baptism. The 1841 census showed him living in Hightown, near Ringwood, and the 1851 census put him in Sandford, next-door to Thomas's son, my 3rd great-grandfather Stephen (1791-1867).

There is also no record of Thomas's baptism, but I had hypothesized that he might have been another son of George and Mary.

Ivor and Chris agreed to have their DNA tested.

The results say that Chris and I have a Genetic Distance of 1 (a 36/37 DNA marker match), which is considered Tightly Related. Ivor and I have a distance of 2 (a 35/37 match), which is considered Related. Chris and Ivor also have a distance of 2 from one another.

Digging deeper, the probability that Thomas and Charles were brothers (sons of George) is about 48%. That they were cousins: about 63%. Second cousins: about 74%. Third cousins: about 82%. (Each additional generation increases the odds.)

The probability that Stephen and William were brothers (sons of Thomas) is about 59%. That they were cousins: about 74%. Second cousins: about 83%. Third cousins: about 89%.

Finally, the probability that James and William were brothers (sons of Charles) is lower, about 46%. That they were cousins: about 62%. Second cousins: about 73%. Third cousins: about 81%. And so on...

Conclusion? The three Kendall (Kindle, Kendell, etc.) families of Sandford were certainly related, and the search for the origin of one branch promises to shed light on them all.

White's 1859 Directory of Hampshire

William White's History, Gazetteer and Directory of Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, published in 1859, is a detailed catalogue of every town and village in the county at the time.

The files below are transcriptions of the pages pertaining to Ringwood and south-east Hampshire.

Christchurch Union P.P. 391-406
Christchurch, Holdenhurst, and Sopley
Whites_1859_Christchurch_Union.pdf

Ringwood Union P.P. 406-414
Ringwood, Ellingham, Harbridge, Ibsley, and Burley-Ville
Whites_1859_Ringwood_Union.pdf

Fordingbridge Union P.P. 414-419
Fordingbridge, Breamore, Woodgreen, North and South
Charford, Hale, and Rockbourne
Whites_1859_Fordingbridge_Union.pdf

Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view these files.

Whatever happened to...

This article is about a couple of the "tricky" genealogical cases - two of the daughters of John Kendall and his wife Elizabeth (née Rogers) who appeared to vanish from the records.

Mary Ann Kendall

Mary married Charles Samuel Henry Wiseman on July 10th, 1884. They promptly vanished from the records.

To try to discover what might have become of them, I decided to work backwards, and try to track down Mr. Wiseman's family.

The name of Charles Wiseman's father was omitted from the marriage register, but I did find one Henry Samuel Wiseman in the 1861 census, living in Crowe at the home of his grandfather Henry Wiseman, with his mother Amelia Wiseman and his brother George Wiseman. It appears that Amelia had two sons without the benefit of a husband!

I couldn't find Amelia Wiseman in the 1871 census, but I did find George Wiseman, living at Crowe Cottages, neigbouring the Kendall family, with his now-married mother Amelia White, her father William Wiseman, and her other children Samuel, Sarah, Charles and James White. Of course, Amelia, Samuel and George were all born the same years as their counterparts in the 1861 census. ("William" was born the same year as Amelia's father Henry, and there's no other mention of him in the records. The enumerator's mistake perhaps?)

Amelia Wiseman and Samuel White married in 1862. It seems reasonable to assume that, as Samuel took his name and George didn't, Samuel White was Samuel Wiseman's father.

Grandfather Henry died in 1878, and by the time of the 1881 census, Amelia had vanished. George was the head of the Wiseman household at No. 6 Crowe Cottages. Samuel White lived with George and his family. Mary Ann and her family lived at No. 1 Crowe Cottages.

Samuel and Mary Ann married three years later. He used his apparent legal name, Charles Samuel Henry Wiseman, in the marriage register.

Following their marriage, Mary Ann and Samuel lived at Crowe. They were neighbours with her parents John and Elizabeth, several of her siblings and their families, and his brother George and his family.

Mary and Samuel had three children. The first, Charles Samuel, was born just before the census in 1891. His parents registered his surname as Wiseman, but in the census, used White. The other children, Alice Mary and Rosie Amelia, were both registered with the surname White.

Sam White died in 1915. Thus far, I've found no record of the death of Mary.

Sarah Kendall

In the 1891 census, Sarah and her sister Jane were not in Ringwood. A search turned up Emma Sarah Kendall and Jane Kendall in Quidhampton, Wiltshire. They were from Ringwood, the right age, and both were in the service of one John H. P. Topp, a merchant of Wimborne, Dorset. Emma Sarah had with her a two-year-old son, Charles Frederick Kendall.

There is no record of the baptism of Sarah in Ringwood, so it's possible her name was indeed Emma Sarah.

A search of the Quidhampton birth records around that time reveals the following:

1. Kendell, Charles Frederick - 1888 Jul-Sep
2. Kendell, Florence Amelia B - 1892 Oct-Dec
3. Kendell, George - 1895 Oct-Dec
4. Kendell, Walter - 1897 Apr-Jun

By 1901, Jane Kendall was married and back in Ringwood, but there was no trace of Sarah, or of "Emma Sarah", anywhere in the census.

A search for Mr. Topp in the 1901 census found him in Brockenhurst, Hampshire, with one Emily Kendall in his service. Emily was from Ringwood, and was the same age as Sarah. No Emily Kendall was born in Ringwood at that time, so it's likely that Emily was Emma Sarah.

There was also no trace in the 1901 census of Emma Sarah's son, Charles Frederick, nor of any of the other "Kendell" children.

A further search for John H. P. Topp found the records of John Henry Partridge Topp, born the same year in Wimborne, Dorset. He married Violet Dinah Bennett in Lambeth, London, in 1884. They had two children, and by 1891, had parted ways. She was in Dorset with their children, while he was in Quidhampton with Sarah and her son.

John H. P. Topp died in 1907.

There was no trace of Sarah in the 1911 census, but Fred Topp, born 1888 in Wiltshire was found in Portsmouth at the home of John A. Melborne, a Navy Stoker, of Ringwood. Fred was described as a "step son". His mother, John Melbourne's wife, was Emma, also of Ringwood and about the same age as Sarah.

Also present at the home of John Melbourne in the 1911 census were Will and Blanche Nelson. Blanche was described as "Daughter", aged 18, and married for one year. The only possible match in the records is the 1910 marriage of Raymond Nelson and Blanche Florence Topp. Blanche's age matches that of Florence Amelia B Kendell, born in Quidhampton.

The 1911 census reported that John and Emma Melbourne had been married for two years; however, there's no record of any such marriage. In fact, the marriage records reveal that John Arthur Melbourne, Chief Stoker R.N., wed Emily Sarah Topp in 1914, and that the bride's father was John Kendall.

John Melbourne died in 1920. Emily Sarah Melbourne died in Portsmouth in 1942.

Poor Laws

When researching family history using parish records, it is important to understand the Poor Laws which governed relief given to the poor, by the parish, in the form of money, food, clothing or shelter.

Poor relief was funded by the poor rate, a tax levied on property in the parish.

The Settlement Act of 1682 allowed for the removal from a parish of newcomers, back to their place of "settlement", if local justices deemed them to be "likely to be chargeable" to the parish poor rate.

This meant, in effect, that labouring people could move to a new parish only under certain circumstances.

Being in continuous employment for at least a year would qualify someone for settlement in a new parish; however, employers would often hire for a period less than a full year, or with a small amount of unpaid holiday included. Conversely, labourers might quit their jobs within a year to avoid being trapped in a disagreeable parish.

The 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act set up a legal and administrative framework for a new poor relief system. It formed the parishes into Poor Law Unions, each of which operated a workhouse. Although the parishes funded the Union, they remained the area of settlement until 1865, after which one year's residence in a union would qualify a person as being irremovable.

An excellent overview of Poor Laws and the Settlement Act can be found at Peter Peter Higginbotham's web site www.workhouses.org.uk.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?poorlaws

The Sandford Years

Sandford was a hamlet in the Tithing of Bisterne-and-Crow, in the parish of Ringwood, located a few kilometres to the south east of Ringwood town.

(Crown Copyright)

Old Parish Records

The first record of a Kendall at Sandford in the parish registers was the baptism of Alfred, son of Stephen and Sarah, on 29 July 1835.

I checked the parish register, and discovered that the practice of including where people were from in the baptism, marriage and burial registers began on January 1st 1812. It wasn't until 1835 that the name of the hamlet was recorded, rather than the name of the parish, and then only for baptisms and burials; not marriages.

Sandford burial records of that time included:

• Elisabeth Kendale, on 23 August 1835, age 56 (i.e., born about 1779).
• Emma Kendale, on 16 March 1837, age 76 (i.e., born about 1761).
• Keturah Kendall , on 13 Jan 1839, aged 25 (i.e., born about 1814).

The 1841 Census

The 1841 census recorded a total of 25 households in Sandford. It asked people their occupation, and if they were from the county. Two households were headed by farmers, one by a carpenter, one by a publican, and 16 by "Agricultural Labourers". The rest were "of independent means".

Included in the 1841 census were two "Kindle" homes. All the Kindle men were Agricultural Labourers. One household was headed by Stephen; the other by Thomas, aged 60 (i.e., born 1781). I believe his age was recorded incorrectly, and that he was Stephen’s father.

Living with Thomas was James, his wife Martha (née Cox) and their family. James was a son of Charles and his wife Lucy (née Wiseman). Charles was a son of George and his wife Mary (née Peckham).

Also in Sandford in 1841 were John Harder and his family. John’s mother was Mary Kindle, the daughter of George and Mary. Three years later, John’s daughter Mary Ann would marry Thomas Kendall, the son of Stephen and Sarah.

Looking Back

The parish baptism record shows that James had a sister, Kitty, who was baptised in 1813. Kitty was probably Keturah, buried in Sandford in 1839. Her mother Lucy died in 1818 when Kitty was 5, and her father Charles died in 1829 when Kitty was 16. It’s likely she went to live with her brother James and his family.

Elisabeth, buried in Sandford in 1835, was likely Elizabeth Jennings, widow of James, who died in 1819. James was also a son of George and Mary, and a brother of Charles.

If the Thomas with whom James and his family were living was indeed Stephen’s father, then it’s possible that Emma, buried in Sandford in 1837, was in fact Thomas’s wife Amy. There’s no other record of Emma or, for that matter, of Amy.

Scottish Mary

Another interesting household in Sandford was that of Robert Brewer and his wife Mary, who married in Ringwood in 1838. Mary's father was James Kindle.

In the 1841 census, Mary said she was born in Scotland. In later censuses, she provided more detail, saying she was born about 1814 in Musselburg, Scotland, “of English parents”.

Mary was the right age to have been the daughter of the aforementioned James Kindle and Elizabeth Jennings, who married in 1803. No children of James and Elizabeth were baptised in Ringwood Parish. It appears they were in Scotland!

The Bisterne Chapel

In 1843, Bisterne Church (St. Paul) was built as a "chapel of ease", to spare the inhabitants of the tithing the long walk to the parish church in Ringwood. It's probably safe to assume that baptism, marriage or burial at the Bisterne Chapel meant the person resided in the tithing.

The 1851 Census

The 1851 census recorded a total of 30 households in Sandford, of which 20 had arrived during the preceding ten years. The majority of Sandford households were still headed by Agricultural Labourers. The new households included:

• William Kendall and his wife Mary (née Mist).
• Henry Kendall, eldest son of Stephen and Sarah, and his wife Harriet (née Day).
• Caleb Minty and his wife Selina Kendall, daughter of James and Martha.
• Charles Rogers and his wife Jane Kendall, daughter of Stephen and Sarah.
• James Barnes, whose daughter Elizabeth married George Kendall, a son of William and Mary.

Missing from the 1851 census was Thomas Kindle, who died in Sandford in 1847. He was 86 (i.e., born 1761). Present at his death was one Mary Kendall.

The 1861 Census

By 1861 the population of Sandford had shrunk to 24 households, of which 10 were new. Most households were still Agricultural Labourers.

The new households included John Kendall, a son of Stephen and Sarah and twin brother of Jane, and his wife Elizabeth (née Rogers), who was the sister of Charles.

Stephen died in 1867. Present at his death was his daughter-in-law, John's wife Elizabeth. John, his sister Jane, and their families moved to Crowe about that time. Henry went to join his brother Thomas, who had already moved to Avon. Stephen Jr. and James went to Southampton. Widow Sarah went to live with her son John in Crowe. Alfred stayed in Sandford.

William and Mary left Sandford before the next census in 1871. They moved to Strouds Lane, in Ringwood.

Robert Brewer died just before the census in 1871. His widow Mary (née Kindle) moved to Crowe and lived next-door to John and his family until sometime after 1881, when she moved to Ripley to live with her son Edwin and his family.

The Twentieth Century

By 1901 there were only 17 families in Sandford. A new arrival was Eli Mintey, son of Selena and Caleb, and his family. He was the farmer at Brixey’s Farm.

Charles Rogers (widower of Stephen’s Jane and brother of John’s wife Elizabeth) had moved back to Sandford by 1901, and probably lived there until he died in 1911. He was a “Cow keeper”.

Stephen’s son Alfred was the last Kendall in Sandford. By 1911 he was a widower and a Railway Carpenter, and lived with his son George and daughter Agnes. He probably stayed in Sandford until he died in 1919.

The Twenty-First Century

I visited Sandford in September 2009. There's nothing there anymore. I was told by a local gentleman that, back in the nineteenth century, the farm labourers would have lived in mud/thatch cottages. They are long gone.

The Death of Thomas Kindle

In my last post, I wrote about Thomas Kendill who was recorded in the 1841 census living in Sandford with James Kindell, his wife Martha and their children. The census said Thomas was aged 60 (i.e., born 1781).

There’s no other record of a Thomas born circa 1781, and he doesn’t appear in the 1851 census with James & Martha (or anywhere else).

The Ringwood Parish record contains an entry for the burial of one Thomas Kendall on 11 July 1847 (which would explain his absence from the 1851 census!). But this Thomas was aged 86 (i.e., born 1761 rather than 1781).

I obtained a copy of the corresponding record of death. It says Thomas was a labourer, and that he died at Sandford on July 7th. The informant was one Mary Kendall, who had been present at his death. It doesn’t describe her relationship to Thomas.

Mary Ann Harder was the wife of Thomas's grandson, Thomas Kendall (1821-1899), a son of Stephen. Mary Ann and young Thomas both lived in Sandford in 1841, she with her parents and he with his. They married in 1844, and by 1851 they lived in Sopley. It is possible that they still lived in Sandford in 1847, but in every recorded instance, Mary Ann used her full name, and never called herself Mary.

Mary Mist was the wife of William Kendall (1794-1879). William was born in Sandford. He and Mary were married in Ibsley in 1819, and lived in Hightown in 1841. But in the 1851 census, they were recorded living in Sandford, next-door to Stephen, who lived next-door to James and Martha. (Stephen and his wife Sarah Head were also married in Ibsley.)

My favorite theories are as follows:

• Thomas’s age in the 1841 census of Sandford was recorded or transcribed incorrectly. It was written as "60", but should have been "80".
• This was the same Thomas who died in Sandford in 1847, aged 86.
  
• William and Mary lived in Sandford by the time Thomas died, and she was present at his death.

With Thomas being born in 1761, I'm convinced that he was the same man who married Amy Hatcher in 1785 (aged 24) and fathered Stephen in 1791 (aged 30).

It's possible that Thomas was a brother of James's father Charles Kindle (born 1760), who was a son of George Kindle. That would mean Thomas was the uncle of James, with whom he lived in 1841. Unfortunately, there is no record of the baptism of Thomas in the Ringwood transcripts, but there are baptism records for seven children of George.

Finally, William living next to Stephen and James, and his wife Mary attending to Thomas at his death would be an indication that they might be related, and many assert that William was a son of Thomas. Unfortunately, there's no record of the baptism of William in the Ringwood transcripts either.

Update: see the results of DNA testing of descendants of Thomas, William and James.

The Children of Thomas Kindle and Amy Hatcher

Several public trees on the Ancestry web site claim Thomas was born in 1755 and list numerous children of Thomas Kindle and Amy Hatcher, including:

• Thomas (1781–)
• Stephen (1791–)
• John (1792–)
• William (1794/5–)
• James (1800/1-)

In fact, there’s no record of the birth of Thomas in Hampshire, and the only Ringwood Parish baptism record that mentions both Thomas and Amy was that of Stephen Kindle in 1791. There’s also a baptism of Thomas Kindle in 1793; it says his father was Thomas, but omits his mother's name.

The 1841 census recorded a Thomas Kindell (born 1781) in Sandford living with James Kindell (born 1801) and his wife Martha, close to Stephen Kindell (born 1791) and his wife Sarah.

In the 1851 census, there was no mention of Thomas (1881), but Stephen, James and their families were still neigbours in Sandford, now with William (1795) and his family living next-door.

In the 1861 census, there was no mention of James (1801) but Stephen and William, and their families were still neigbours in Sandford.

I suspect that someone saw these census records, and made the assumption that Stephen, Thomas, James and William were all brothers. Others copied, and now nobody seems to know the origin of the information.

Of course, transcriptions and even original parish and census records can contain omissions and errors, so circumstantial evidence has to be considered. But caveat emptor is always the rule!

THOMAS 1881

While the 1841 census recorded a Thomas Kindell (born 1781), there’s no other record of a Thomas of that vintage and, again, he doesn’t appear in the 1851 census with James & Martha (or anywhere else). There is a Ringwood death record of one Thomas Kendall in 1847, but his age was 86 (i.e., born 1761 rather than 1781). More about that later!

STEPHEN 1791

Stephen Kindle was born in Sandford and baptised on 11 March 1791, the son of Thomas and Amy Kindle [22M84 PR4 Ringwood CB 1782-1812]. Stephen married Sarah Head in Ibsley in 1817. As mentioned, the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census recorded him living in Sandford. He died in 1867 aged 76.

JOHN 1792
I don't know how John (1792) could be connected to Thomas and Amy. The only John of that vintage that I’ve found lived in Winkton in 1841 with his wife Ann, and died in 1847 aged 56. Winkton is south of Sopley, some distance from Sandford. I've found no connection to any of the other would-be brothers.

THOMAS 1793
The Ringwood parish baptism transcripts list Thomas Kindle, born in Sandford and baptised on 13 October 1793, the son of Thomas (with no mention of Amy). There’s no other record of this Thomas.

WILLIAM 1794
William (1794) was born in Sandford. He and his wife Mary Mist married in Ibsley in 1819. The 1841 census recorded them living at Hightown, which is fairly close to Sandford. In 1851 they were recorded living in Sandford, next-door to Stephen (1791) and James (1801). In 1861 they were still in Sandford near Stephen (1791). William died in 1879 aged 85. There's no record of the baptism of William. His marriage in Ibsley, and living near Stephen in 1851 and 1861 could be a coincidence… but probably not, according to the results of DNA testing.

JAMES 1800
James (1800) married Martha Cox in 1824 and died in 1851. The Ringwood Parish baptism record notes that James was baptised 11 July 1802 and was the son of Charles (whose wife was Lucy Wiseman). Charles was baptised in 1760 and was the son of George Kindell and Mary Peckham. DNA testing gives very low odds to James having been a son of Thomas.

The Children of Stephen Kindle and Sarah Head

The 1841 census of Sandford shows Stephen Kendall (Kindle) and his wife Sarah with eight children:

1. Henry 1818
2. Thomas 1821
3. Jane 1826
4. John 1827
5. Stephen 1830
6. Charles 1833
7. Alfred 1836
8. James 1838

Point your mouse at a name above for a brief overview.

Stephen and Sarah (née Head) were married 25 May 1817 at Ibsley.
Henry Kendle was baptised at Ringwood, 10 months and 11 days later on 5 April 1818. But the transcript of the parish baptism register says "of Stephen & Mary of Ringwood".

The transcript of Thomas Kendle's baptism on 22 April 1821 says "of Thomas & Sarah of Ringwood". I checked the original at Winchester [22M84 PR5 Ringwood C 1813-1838] and the transcript is correct.

Curiously, the transcript also contains an entry for Edwin Kendle, baptised 31 December 1820 "of Stephen & Sarah of Ringwood, Labourer, 1 year old".

The transcript also contains entries for Stephen Kendall on 18 November 1829 "of Stephen & Sarah of Ringwood" and Stephen Kendale on 5 September 1830, of the same parents. It could have been an error, but it was common in those times to give the name of a deceased child to the next baby.

The parish baptism register transcript entries for the other children, Jane to James, are all present and correct.

I've found no record of the marriage of a Stephen & Mary or a Thomas & Sarah in Hampshire. Moreover, since Henry and Thomas were living with Stephen & Sarah in 1841, I'm inclined to think that the parish register is incorrect.

That being the case, what about Edwin?

Edwin was baptised 31 December 1820, aged 1 year old. Thomas was baptised 22 April 1821. There's an IGI Entry that says Thomas was born 15 March 1820. Obviously, the dates don't work. If Thomas were born before Edwin was baptised, he'd have been baptised too. But since the IGI is so completely polluted with misinformation, this birth date is probably rubbish.

There was no record of an Edwin Kendall in the 1841 census of Ringwood, but there was a tailor named Edward Kendell, age 20. In 1851, Edwin Kendall age 30, also a tailor, was recorded in Fordingbridge with his wife Ann and their children. From 1861 to 1891, the tailor Edwin and his family were recorded living at Up Street in Ringwood.

Here's the problem: the 17 July 1848 marriage record of Edwin and Ann reads "17 Jul 1848 Edwin Kendell, Bachelor, of Ringwood, Tailor, of William, Labourer; married Ann Andrews, Spinster, of Ringwood, of James, Labourer".

The only William Kendall of suitable vintage in Ringwood is the man that some claim was a brother of Stephen (more about that in a later post). This William married Mary Mist in Ibsley on 10 October 1819. Their first recorded child, also named William, was baptised just over two years later on 14 October 1821 in Ringwood.

Again, Edwin was baptised 31 December 1820, aged 1 year old. It's possible he was the child of William and Mary. The marriage record (or transcript) could also be incorrect.

The timeline again:

1817 May 25 - Stephen married Sarah
1818 Apr 05 - Henry baptised of Stephen & Mary
1819 Oct 10 - William married Mary
1819 Dec 31 - Edwin born (approx.)
1820 Dec 31 - Edwin baptised of Stephen & Sarah (not William & Mary)
1821 Apr 22 - Thomas baptised of Thomas & Sarah

Stephen & William (possibly brothers) married Sarah & Mary (both of Ibsley). Stephen also had a brother named Thomas (although no record of him can be found beyond his 1793 baptism).

I'm stumped.

A detailed list of the records pertaining to John, Elizabeth and their family are here:

http://www.kendallfamily.org.uk/families/1791-Stephen.html

Henry was born in 1818. He was a shoemaker, or cordwainer. Henry married Harriet Day in 1845, and they had seven children. In the 1860s, they moved from Sandford to Avon, near Sopley, where brother Thomas already lived. Henry died in 1895.

Thomas was born in 1821. He was an agricultural labourer. Thomas married Mary Ann Harder in 1844, and they had ten children. Sometime between 1851 and 1861, they moved from Sandford to Sopley, and then to the village of Avon. Thomas died in 1899.

Jane was born in 1824. In 1845 she married Charles William Rogers, a railway labourer. Jane's brother John later married Charles's sister Elizabeth. They moved to Crow in the late 1860s. Jane died in 1875. She had no children.

John was born in 1827. He worked as an agricultural labourer, and later as a railway labourer. John married Elizabeth Chamberlain Rogers in 1852, and they had eleven children (click for details). The family moved to Crow in the late 1860s. John died in 1908.

Stephen was born in 1830, and was an agricultural labourer in Sandford. He married Caroline Burt in 1855 and moved to Southampton, where he worked as a dock labourer. They had one child, a son. Stephen died in 1899.

Charles was born in 1833, and was an agricultural labourer in Sandford. He died in 1858 at age 25, without having married.

Alfred was born in 1835 in Sandford. He married Maria Feltham in 1861, and they had seven children. Alfred was an agricultural labourer until the late 1860s, when he became a railway labourer. He stayed in Sandford until he died in 1919.

James was born in 1838 in Sandford. He married Sarah Elliott in 1859, and they had five children. In the late 1860s, they moved to Southampton, where brother Stephen already lived. James worked on the barges and as a general labourer. He died in 1910.

The IGI, or International Genealogical Index, is a database of genealogical records created and maintained by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The Children of John Kindle and Elizabeth Rogers

The Ringwood parish baptism register, the cemetery register, and the censuses from 1861 onward show ten children of John Kendall and his wife Elizabeth (née Rogers).

1. Elizabeth Jane (1853-)
   
2. Charles William (1856-1910)
   
3. Alice Mary (1858-1937)
   
4. Mary Ann (1861-1862)
   
5. Mary Ann (1863-)
   
6. Harriett (1866-1867)
   
7. Sarah (1868-1942)
   
8. George (1870-1951)
   
9. John (1874-1959)
   
10. Jane (1874-1908)

Point your mouse at a name above for a brief overview.

According to the 1871 census, Elizabeth, Charles and Alice were born in Sandford, the second Mary was born in Ringwood, and Sarah and George were born in Crowe. The later censuses recorded the parish in which people were born, rather than hamlet, but the twins John and Jane were undoubtedly born at home at Crowe Cottages.

Elizabeth Kendall with her son George and his family (c.1903).

During the Sandford years, John worked as an Agricultural Labourer. By 1862, at the time of the death of the first Mary Ann, he was employed as a Railway Labourer and had moved his family to Ringwood. By 1866, and the birth of Harriett at Saint Johns Buildings in Southampton, he was employed as a General Labourer. By 1867, when Harriett died, they had moved to Crowe. John's mother Sarah lived with them after the death of her husband Stephen.

(Crown Copyright)

John and Elizabeth lived at Crowe Cottages until they died, he in 1908 and she in 1915. They are buried at the Methodist Chapel (now Crowe Hill Methodist Church) shown above in the upper right corner.

In the 1911 census, women were asked the number of children, living or dead, that they had borne. Elizabeth reported eleven children, of whom five were dead. By that time, Charles, the first Mary, Harriett and Jane were dead. Elizabeth, the younger Mary, George and John were alive, living nearby in Crowe. Alice lived in Ringwood, and Sarah lived in Portsmouth. The eleventh child remains unaccounted for.

A detailed list of the records pertaining to John, Elizabeth and their family are here:

http://www.kendallfamily.org.uk/families/1827-John.html

Elizabeth was born in 1853 in Sandford. She moved to Crowe with her family in the late 1860s. She married Edward John Haines, a bricklayer, in 1872. They had eleven children.

Charles William Kendall was born in 1856 in Sandford. He had four wives and ten children, and died in 1910 aged 53. Click here for more.

Alice was born in 1858 in Sandford. In 1880, she married Walter Bree, a soldier, and soon disappeared from the records. Alice and Walter reappeared in the 1911 census in Ringwood, having had - and lost - three children. Alice died in 1937.

Mary was born in early 1861 in Sandford. She died the same year, on December 4th, of measles and pneumonia.

Mary was born in 1863. She was named after her deceased sister, and was baptised in 1865 when she was 14 months old. Mary married Charles Samuel Henry Wiseman (a.k.a. Samuel White) in 1884. They had four children. Click here for more.

Harriett was born in May 1866 in Southampton. She died the next year in Crowe, aged 9 months, and was buried at the new Ringwood Cemetery.

Sarah was born in 1868 in Crowe. She led a complicated life. By 1891, Sarah and her sister Jane were in the service of one John H. P. Topp in Quidhampton, Wiltshire. Sarah had with her a two-year-old son, Charles Frederick Kendall. By 1901, Jane was married and back in Ringwood, but Sarah and Mr. Topp were in Brockenhurst, Hampshire, she still in his service, but without her son. Click here for more.

George was born in 1870 in Crowe. He married Frances Elizabeth Parker in 1897, and they had eight children. George worked as a railway labourer. He died in 1951, and was buried at the Crowe Hill Methodist Church.

John and his twin sister Jane were born in 1874 in Crowe. John lived there until he died. He married Caroline Humby in 1893, and they had eight children. John worked as a railway labourer. He died in 1959, and was buried at the Ringwood Cemetery.

Jane and her twin brother John were born in 1874 in Crowe. Jane married John Tanner, a horse dealer, in 1895. They had no children. She died in South Stoneham, Southampton in 1908, aged 34.

Kendall Web Sites

The Kendall "surname group" at the RootsWeb site is a message board where you can get in touch with other Kendall researchers.

http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.kendall/mb.ashx

Cemeteries and Graveyards Near Ringwood

Earlier, I wrote about the Ringwood Cemetery and Ringwood Churches.

Whilst visiting Ringwood earlier this month (September 2009), I explored the surrounding area for cemeteries and graveyards. Here are a few that I found:


BRANSGORE PARISH CHURCH

Bransgore parish has two churches: St. Mary's Church and All Saints Church.

Copyright Michael Ford and licensed for
reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

St. Mary's Church, above, is in the village of Bransgore. It was built in 1823. The old part of its church yard is no longer maintained.

All Saints Church is near Thorney Hill, and was built in 1906. It is located east of Bransgore, just inside the New Forest.

Update: information about these churches has been consolidated in the Local Parish Guide section of this site.


IBSLEY PARISH CHURCH

Ibsley is about three miles north of Ringwood. The former parish church of St. Martin is a small red brick building at the corner of Mockbeggar Lane. It was built in in 1654, and deconsecrated in 1986.

Copyright William and licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

Update: information about this church has been consolidated in the Local Parish Guide section of this site.


SOPLEY PARISH CHURCH

Sopley is on the road from Ringwood to Christchurch. The parish church of St. Michael and All Angels was built in 1137, on what probably was the site of an earlier Saxon church.

Copyright Michael Ford and licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

Update: information about this church has been consolidated in the Local Parish Guide section of this site.


SOPLEY CEMETERY

The Sopley Cemetery is maintained by Sopley Parish Council. It's north of Sopley on the road to Ringwood (B3347). The cemetery was opened in 1881.

Copyright Mike Smith and licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

At present, the Sopley cemetery registers are not available at the Hampshire Records Office.

A sign at the cemetery gate directs interested parties to contact Councillor John Eccles. His contact details can be found on the Parish Council web site:

http://www.sopley.gov.uk

 

Family History Library

The Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah, USA, was founded in 1894 by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to assist people with their family history and genealogical research.

Anyone – not just church members – can visit their nearest Family History Centre, order microfilm from the FHL's massive collection for a minimal fee, and view it in the FHC reading room at no charge.

Click here to find a Family History Centre near you.

While family history is an important part of the LDS faith, their church members refrain from proselytizing to non-LDS researchers.

International Genealogical Index

The International Genealogical Index is an online database of genealogical records, compiled from numerous sources, and maintained by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The IGI contains two types of records: entries gathered from reliable sources (such as parish registers and transcriptions), and entries contributed by LDS church members.

Unfortunately, the contributed entries often contain duplications and errors, and do not cite original sources; however, they can provide clues about where to search.

Some good advice on searching the IGI can be found at Helen Schatvet Ullmann's web site:

http://www.livgenmi.com/fhcigi.htm

The LDS has organized the records in the IGI into 'batches', which relate to how and when the information was extracted from source material. Knowing the batch number of the information you want makes searching the IGI much easier.

Hugh Wallis web site eliminates the need to know batch numbers in many cases:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis

Hampshire Record Office

The Hampshire Record Office (HRO) is located in Winchester. It's the home of Hampshire Archives and Local Studies, and where all of the old records are stored for the county of Hampshire. (Newer records may still be with the parish churches.) The HRO is well worth a visit. They have a spacious reading room, with plenty of microfiche readers and a couple of microfiche copiers.

It's important to remember that while they have computers and copies of the Hampshire Genealogical Society index CD collection, you really need to know the date, place and other details of the event you're looking for before you travel any distance to the HRO. (On the other hand, a lot of the information at the HRO is not indexed, so a visit and several hours staring at microfiche may be the only way you'll find what you're looking for.)

You can order copies or photographs of documents or copies of microfiche, either in-person or by downloading forms from the HRO web site and sending them by post. You can have them deliver photographs to you via e-mail.

In order to locate documents or microfiche, you need the corresponding reference number which you can locate by searching the online catalogue at the HRO web site.

Unfortunately, the HRO web site search capability is quite difficult to use and not all the documents are well indexed, so I've put together a list of useful reference numbers which you can download here:

HRO_Registers.pdf

This lists the dates and descriptions of documents or fiche available, and if they're indexed, for a few parishes in the Ringwood area:

• Bransgore Parish (16M67)
• Ellingham Parish (113M82)
• Ibsley Parish (85M83)
• Ringwood Parish (22M84)
• Ringwood Congregational/United Reformed (57M83)
• Ringwood Presbyterian/Unitarian (11M89)
• Sopley Parish (53M80)
• Ringwood Cemetery Registers
  

If you wanted to order a copy of the parish record page for the baptism of Stephen Kindle on March 11th 1791 in Ringwood, you'd look for that date, see the 1782-1812 CB (christening/burial) register for Ringwood and find the reference number, which is 22M84 PR4.

You could then locate the microfiche for this register at the HRO in Winchester, or write this number on an order form, along with all the other details, and send it to them.

If you want to order a document or fiche from the HRO, you should still search the online catalogue to verify the details, but it's easier to use the reference numbers (e.g., search for 22M84 instead of Ringwood).

The HRO also has a collection of cemetery registers on microfiche. To locate the reference numbers, search the online catalogue for "cemetery fiche".

If you want to visit the HRO in person, they offer limited free parking, but you have to call ahead and reserve it. Directions, hours and other information are all available on their web site:

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/archives.htm

Hampshire Web Sites

The Hampshire Genealogical Society maintains a web site with some useful information about Hampshire in particular and genealogy in general.

http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/

The Hampshire Family History web site is a directory of Internet sites for Hampshire genealogy.

http://website.lineone.net/~hantshistory/

The Hampshire forum at the RootsWeb site is a message board where you can get in touch with other Hampshire researchers.

http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.britisles.england.ham.general/mb.ashx

Ringwood Churches

Ringwood Parish Church

The Ringwood parish church of St. Peter & St. Paul is located in the Market Place, and dates back to The Domesday Book. It was rebuilt in about 1200. The current building was constructed in 1853-1855.

Image copyright Gillian Moy and licensed for
reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

Update: information about this church has been consolidated in the Local Parish Guide section of this site.

Bisterne Chapel

St. Paul’s Church is a chapelry of the parish church. It is located on the Ringwood to Christchurch road about three miles south of Ringwood.

Image copyright Chris Downer and licensed for
reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

Update: information about this church has been consolidated in the Local Parish Guide section of this site.

Crowe Hill Methodist Church

The Crowe Hill Methodist Church is, not surprisingly, located at Crowe Hill. They have a small cemetery in the church yard.

Image copyright David Kendall 2009.
All rights reserved.

The Hampshire Records Office in Winchester has a microfilm copy of nonconformist registers, held at The National Archives, which include Ringwood (Wesleyan) births and baptisms, 1833-1837 (Film M346). Newer records are held by the minister.

You can find more information about the church at its web site:

http://www.crowehill.org/

 

The Brookes/Walker Mystery

After having four children with Mary Ann Walker, Charles married Mary Ann Brookes in Southampton on June 28th 1901.

Mary Ann said her father was Harry George Brookes, deceased. They reported Charles a widower, Mary Ann a spinster, and their residence as Lorna Doon, Ash Tree Road, Portswood.

Lorna Doon was the home of Charles’s cousin Thomas Kendall (the brother of Janet Kendall, with whom it appears Charles had three children) and his wife Julia (née Royall, formerly Brookes, formerly Walker) from Birmingham. (In the 1901 census, Mary Ann had said she was from Birmingham.)

On nearby Oak Tree Road, Portswood, Henry Alfred Kendall, a widower and the son of another of Charles’s cousins was living with his children and Roseanna Brookes, also from Birmingham.

Julia Royall married James Brookes in Birmingham in 1872. They had two daughters: Mary Ann in 1873 and Roseanna in 1875. James Brookes died several months before Roseanna was born, and in early 1876, Julia remarried. Her new husband, Harry George Walker adopted the girls and moved the family first to Bristol by 1881, then to Holdenhurst, Hampshire by 1891.

Harry George Walker died in early 1901 in Blandford, Dorset, and Charles and Mary Ann married shortly thereafter. Why they waited seven years, why she reverted to her birth name, and why she combined the names of her father and stepfather all remain mysteries.

Despite the fact that her second husband was still alive, Julia had apparently married Thomas Kendall in Southampton in 1897, calling herself Julia Brookes. After the death of Harry George Walker, Thomas and Julia, this time calling herself Julia Walker, married again in 1902.

Henry Kendall and Roseanna Brookes married in 1905.

The Wives of Charles William Kendall

This post is intended to add some detail to the story of Charles William Kendall.

Charles’s Marriage to Annie Manston

Charles married Annie Manston in Ringwood on September 25th 1877, but in 1881, he was apparently again single, lodging in Southampton St. Mary’s and working as a General Labourer.

Charles’s Children with Janet Kendall

On May 5th 1883, Charles’s daughter Ada May was born in Ringwood. Ada’s mother was Janet Kendall (née Kendall).

Charles and Janet had two more children: Charles William, born May 5th 1885 in Ringwood and Bertie Tom, born December 28th 1887 in Bransgore which was the home of Charles’s cousin Janet Kendall in the 1881 census. The Hampshire records contain no mention of any other Janet Kendall.

In the 1891 census, the three children were recorded as living with their grandparents, John and Elizabeth, at Crow Cottages in Ringwood. Charles and Janet were missing.
 
Charles’s Children with Mary Ann Walker

By 1894, Charles was working as a bargeman in Southampton.

On May 20th 1894, Charles’s son Arthur Adrian Kendall was born in Southampton. Arthur’s mother was Mary Ann Kendall (née Walker).

Charles and Mary Ann Walker had three more children: Albert Edward Walter, born June 3rd 1896 in Crow, Ringwood , Annie Julia, born June 25th 1898, and Frederick Lewis Stanley, born November 15th 1900, both in Northam, near Portswood in Southampton.

On Albert’s record birth, Charles’s name was recorded as “William Charles Kendall”.

In the census taken on March 31st 1901, Charles and Mary Ann were reported to be living with their four children at Riverside Villas in Ringwood. Charles called himself by his middle name, “William”. Mary Ann reported that she was from Birmingham.

Marriage to Mary Ann Brookes

Charles and Mary Ann married in Southampton on June 28th 1901. Mary Ann called herself Mary Ann Brookes and said her father Harry George Brookes, deceased. They reported Charles a widower, Mary Ann a spinster.

On November 15th 1907, Walter Charles Kendall was born in Ringwood. His mother was Mary Ann Kendall (née Brooks). Mary Ann died on December 11th 1907, likely of complications due to childbirth.

Were Mary Ann Walker and Mary Ann Brookes the same woman? Click here to find out more!

Marriage and Children with Rose Maud Gorge

Sometime after Mary Ann’s death, Charles was said to have employed Rose Maud Gordge to take care of his children.

Charles and Rose Maud married in Southampton on February 13th 1909. Charles called himself “William Charles Kendall”, son of John Kendall. Rose called herself “Rose Maud Pemberton”. They also provided a false name for her father, and misrepresented her age as 22 (she was 17).

Dora Gladys Kendall was born in Ringwood on May 27th 1909 and died on July 18th 1909. Charles and Rose Maud provided the same aliases on both records.

On September 18th 1909, Charles and Rose Maud went back to Southampton and corrected the record of their marriage; however, they neither amended his name, “William Charles”, nor his father’s, John Kendall.

Edward Alexander Kendall was born in Ringwood on May 30th 1910. Charles again called himself “William Charles Kendall”. Rose provided her real name, Rose Maud Kendall, née Gordge.

Charles died on October 23rd 1910 (of heart disease and "exhaustion"). Rose, the informant for the record of his death, called him “Charles William Kendall”.

Charles William Kendall

Charles was born in Sandford, Hampshire in 1856. His father was John Kendall (1827-1908). His mother was Elizabeth Chamberlain Rogers (1832-1915).

Charles had four wives and ten children.

Charles's first marriage was to Annie Manston of Ringwood in 1877. Annie was born about 1857. Her father was George Manston. I've found no record of any children.

In 1881, Charles was boarding in Southampton, and reported himself to be single. I've found no further record of Annie.

Soon after, Charles had three children with Janet Kendall (formerly Kendall):

1. Ada May Kendall (born 5 May 1883 in Ringwood)
2. Charles William Kendall (born 5 May 1885 in Ringwood)
3. Bertie Tom Kendall (born 28 Dec 1887 in Bransgore)

In the 1891 census, these children were living with their grandparents John and Elizabeth. Charles and Janet were nowhere to be found.

Next, Charles had five children with Mary Ann (formerly Brookes/Walker):

1. Arthur Adrian Kendall (born 20 May 1894 in Southampton)
2. Albert Edward Walter Kendall (b. 3 June 1896 in Crow, Ringwood)
3. Annie Julia Kendall (b. 25 June 1898 in Northam, Southampton)
4. Frederick Lewis Stanley Kendall (b. 25 April 1900 in Northam, Southampton)
5. Walter Charles Kendall (b. 15 Nov 1907 in Ringwood)

Mary Ann died in December 1907 and Charles married Rose Maud Gordge in 1909. They had two children:

1. Dora Gladys Kendall (died July 1909 age 2 months)
2. Edward Alexander Kendall (1910-1984)

Charles died in 1910 and Rose took Edward to Devon. He married Alice Maud Littlejohns, and they had six children, most of whom had large families.

Charles is buried at the Ringwood Cemetery on Hightown Road, next to his baby daughter Gladys. Their unmarked graves are located just in front and to the right side of the large bush shown here.

Image copyright David Kendall 2009.
All rights reserved.

The picture was taken from a position north-east of the bush, in section P of the cemetery. To the left, you'd see the cemetery entrance and parking area. Charles is buried in grave Q54, and Gladys is buried in the eastern half of grave P54. Click here for a map.

The Hampshire Genealogical Society

The Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS) offers a wealth of information on tracing your roots in Hampshire. They have a reading room in Portsmouth, and offer search and research services. The booklet 'Genealogical Sources for Hampshire' is available for free download from their web site.

Most importantly, they offer a collection of parish records indexes on CD, which are indispensable once you go back further than about 1837.

• Hampshire Baptism Index 1752-1812
• Hampshire Baptism Index 1813-1841 [Details]
  
• Hampshire Marriage Index 1754-1837
• Hampshire Burial Index 1400-1837 [Details]

They also offer Monumental Inscriptions on CD-ROM.

You can find out more about the HGS via their web site:

http://www.hgs-online.org.uk/

Look under "publications" for their CD-ROM collections.

Genalogy Web Sites

As well as running Family History Centres in cities around the world, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also maintains the International Genealogical Index (IGI) and runs a web site:

http://www.familysearch.org/

You can use the web site to locate information on film or fiche in their Library Catalog, then visit your local Family History Centre to order a copy for a minimal charge. You can then search the film or fiche using the equipment in their reading room.

Searching the IGI can be tricky, but Hugh Wallis has made it easier with his web site:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm

It bears repeating that some of the LDS "member submitted" information in the IGI is suspect, to say the least, and should always be verified.

The FreeBMD web site contains birth, marriage and death records from Q3 1837 to 1983. Note that not all records are yet indexed.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

You can order certified copies of records from Q3 1837 and later via the UK General Register Office (Identity and Passport Services) web site.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Census returns from 1841 to 1901 are available at several subscription-based web sites, including Ancestry.

http://www.ancestry.co.uk

The 1911 census is available online on a pay-as-you-go basis.

http://www.1911census.co.uk/

A sister site, Find My Past, also offers the 1841 to 1901 census as well as 1911 via a single subscription.

http://www.findmypast.com

Old ordinance maps can prove indispensable when trying to match historical records to present day locations. A reliable source is Landmark Information Group who sell map extracts via their site:

www.old-maps.co.uk

Alternatively, you can order printed maps or books by contacting:

Rally Maps of West Wellow
P.O. Box 11
Romsey
Hampshire
SO51 8XX
(01794) 515444

Ringwood Cemetery

The Ringwood Cemetery was opened in 1864 and is located on Hightown Road in Ringwood.

Click here to see a map of the cemetery. There is also a map near its entrance. Grave numbers are, in most cases, marked on the back of headstones.

Image copyright Peter Facey and licensed for
reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

The cemetery is operated by the town council. At present, they do not have an index of the graves; however, staff will kindly do limited lookups. For more extensive searches, there is a fee (currently £34 per hour, doubled for non-parishioners).

The Register of Burials for Ringwood Cemetery from 1864 to 1966 is available on microfiche at the Hampshire Records Office in Winchester.

You can find contact details and cemetery information at the Ringwood Town Council web site:

http://www.ringwood.gov.uk/

The Meeting House

The Ringwood Meeting House was built in 1727 by a group of Presbyterians. It is located in the centre of Ringwood, next to the municipal parking lot.

Image copyright Peter Facey and licensed for
reuse under the Creative Commons Licence.

The Meeting House was once known as St. Thomas's Chapel. The chapel's birth, marriage and death records from 1748 are available on microfiche at the Ringwood Library.

The Meeting House is now run by the Ringwood Meeting House Association, a registered charity which funds the day-today running of the centre. Volunteers are often able to help with enquiries about local or family history. They have a collection of old photographs of Ringwood titled "Ringwood Then & Now", various census copies, and other memorabilia.

Ringwood Library

The Ringwood Library is located on Christchurch Road in Ringwood. They have a Family History Collection in blue ring binders in their Local History section.

The Ringwood Parish registers are mostly on microfiche:

• Christenings 1561-1887
• Marriages 1561-1897
• Burials 1561-1894
• Banns 1764-1824
• Poor Accounts 1815
• Trinity Independent Church records 1790-1837
• Presbyterian Chapel of St Thomas BMD from 1748

They also have the following transcriptions:

• Burials 1841-1894, 1949
• Baptisms 1759-1882
• Marriages, indexed by Bride and Groom, 1759-1883
• Memorial Inscriptions from Hightown Cemetery

For surrounding parishes, the following registers are available on microfiche:

• Bransgore 1822
• Breamore 1675
• Burley 1840
• Burton 1875
• Damerham 1678
• Ellingham 1596
• Hyde 1856
• Fordingbridge 1642-1831
• Hale 1626
• Harbridge 1720
• Ibsley 1783
• Martin 1754
• Rockbourne 1561
• Sopley 1678
• Whitsbury 1779

All except Fordingbridge until late 20th century.

There are several census transcripts and fiches for Ringwood and surrounding parishes as well as the Hampshire Records Office wills index 1571-1858.

Note that the library unfortunately does NOT have the means to photograph or copy microfiche, although they will allow you to photocopy transcripts.

More information about the Ringwood Library can be found here:

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/library/library-finder/ringwood-library.htm

Thanks to “little nell” and “stockman fred” at the rootschat web site for the above information.

Welcome to KendallFamily.org.uk

I've set up this web space to publish my research into and speculation about the Kendall family of Ringwood, Hampshire.

My grandfather, Edward Alexander Kendall was born in Ringwood in 1910. Edward's parents were Charles William Kendall (who also called himself William Charles Kendall) and Rose Maud Gordge.

Charles died a few months after Edward's birth, and Rose took Edward to Devon. He never knew his father's family.

Using census, parish and other records that I found online, and by visiting Ringwood and the Hampshire Records Office in Winchester, I was eventually able to trace Charles and his family.

In doing so, I wound up accounting for almost Kendall in Ringwood at the time!